Charges, moves and passage of lines

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gibbyj
Adjudant
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Enregistré le : dim. 3 mars 2019 22:32

Re: Charges, moves and passage of lines

Message par gibbyj » mer. 29 avr. 2020 18:31

That would be my understanding.

RogerGreenwood
Chef de bataillon
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Enregistré le : ven. 29 nov. 2019 20:55

Re: Charges, moves and passage of lines

Message par RogerGreenwood » mer. 29 avr. 2020 22:29

Perhaps a clearer way to state it is to say that there are two distinct phases in the play sequence. First comes units and groups making charge moves. This is followed by resolving the contacts from those charges. The next phase is other moves.
Stating that supporting units may move along with the charge I find may be misleading. The only units that move in the charge and shock resolution phase are those that are in a charge move by a group or are charging by themselves as a single unit charge.

gibbyj
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Enregistré le : dim. 3 mars 2019 22:32

Re: Charges, moves and passage of lines

Message par gibbyj » jeu. 30 avr. 2020 08:21

I don't think that covers it.
If I'm reading Herve correctly.
You can move a second group up to support a charge even if only one of those units is actually supporting.

RogerGreenwood
Chef de bataillon
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Enregistré le : ven. 29 nov. 2019 20:55

Re: Charges, moves and passage of lines

Message par RogerGreenwood » jeu. 30 avr. 2020 10:41

I am 'worried' that might be what he wrote. 😢. If it is, then this would directly contradict what the rules state.

I suspect it might lead to some quite tricky game play too. I can imagine artillery sneaking up to support a charge or units swerving in from different areas in unrealistic coordinated moves.

gibbyj
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Enregistré le : dim. 3 mars 2019 22:32

Re: Charges, moves and passage of lines

Message par gibbyj » jeu. 30 avr. 2020 13:40

I'm not sure it contradicts anything and I'm quite sure it is what he wrote.
What is it you think it contradicts?

RogerGreenwood
Chef de bataillon
Messages : 384
Enregistré le : ven. 29 nov. 2019 20:55

Re: Charges, moves and passage of lines

Message par RogerGreenwood » jeu. 30 avr. 2020 18:10

Charge and shock resolution come before other moves. This is in the play sequence. There is no such thing as a "move to support a charge". Either a single unit charges or a group makes a charge move. These moves are made and any combat is resolved. It may well be that some of a charging group or units that charged and their opponent fled end up in position to support a combat.

The rules state that moves that are not charges come after combat resolution. It is quite clear that non-charge moves come after the combat. You cannot charge with some and make some normal moves with other units and then work out combat.

gibbyj
Adjudant
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Enregistré le : dim. 3 mars 2019 22:32

Re: Charges, moves and passage of lines

Message par gibbyj » jeu. 30 avr. 2020 19:58

It says supports move at the same time as the charging units before combat reolution and it would appear that (Herve has clarified this albeit on the French forum) that means a group not part of the charging group can move if one of those units is moving into a support position. Personally I don't see it as been outwith the sequence and have not seen it happen in games I have played and don't really see it as a big problem.
cheers
Jim
As per point c in the sequence as follows
Charges and shocks
The active player indicates all his charges and the non-active player indicates his reactions: hold still, counter-charge, flee, etc. (see Reactions page 46). Charging units and their supports are then moved as well as counter-charging units. Once all the charge and counter-charge movements of the division have been carried out, the shocks are resolved with all their consequences: flee, pursuit, etc.

RogerGreenwood
Chef de bataillon
Messages : 384
Enregistré le : ven. 29 nov. 2019 20:55

Re: Charges, moves and passage of lines

Message par RogerGreenwood » jeu. 30 avr. 2020 20:36

I do not see any of the wording about supporting units on page 46. Page 43 mentions it for counter charge but that is an entirely different situation.
Page 29 under 'charges and shocks' mentions supports moving but the following paragraph seems to reinforce my point about the sequence on page 28.
Indeed the 'charges and shocks' in the next sentence only states 'charge and counter charge movements'. I can only conclude that the supports mentioned in the previous sentence are other units in the charging group.

Bring back Phil Barker and precise language! 😊

Hazelbark
Adjudant
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Enregistré le : mar. 19 mars 2019 21:01

Re: Charges, moves and passage of lines

Message par Hazelbark » jeu. 30 avr. 2020 23:36

RogerGreenwood a écrit :
jeu. 30 avr. 2020 20:36
Bring back Phil Barker and precise language! 😊
I appreciate the smile. And Barker gave us a lot, but he also made players litigious.

I hear your point. We will get this into an FAQ. But pretty confident, units moving into support can be moved during a charge.

Viking709
Sous-lieutenant
Messages : 100
Enregistré le : ven. 11 oct. 2019 01:23

Re: Charges, moves and passage of lines

Message par Viking709 » ven. 1 mai 2020 00:07

So support units move up during the charge sequence. If they only give morale support then no action marker but if they fire support then they get the action marker
However what if they move up and give morale support and win the combat and the unit they were supporting advanced 1 UD. Can the supporting unit now fire if there is a target as it does not have an action marker?

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