Return fire

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Badger
Soldat
Messages : 6
Enregistré le : dim. 25 oct. 2020 17:19

Re: Return fire

Message par Badger » ven. 27 nov. 2020 13:41

Hi
The point I was challenging boils down to:

1. Return fire - if fire upon you can return fire if if you have an action marker - this is clear
2. Support fire when you are returning fire - in diagram page 53 B1 is fired upon and on is able to return fire and has B3 giving support however B2 cannot as it has an action marker “Indeed, B2 has an action marker and cannot engage in combat if it is not attacked”

My point is if A2 was further over and fired on B1 (fire priority rules) then B2 would not be able to support B1 return fire.

So
When you return fire only units without an activation marker are able (if eligible) to support fire.
This is the same as when you are the initiator of shooting only units without action markers can support fire. As per page 50 Timing of Shooting.

RogerGreenwood
Chef de bataillon
Messages : 384
Enregistré le : ven. 29 nov. 2019 20:55

Re: Return fire

Message par RogerGreenwood » ven. 27 nov. 2020 17:34

You still need to deal with the fifth paragraph of page 53 which states explicitly "A unit with an action marker can still conduct supporting fire." How are you accounting for this?

Badger
Soldat
Messages : 6
Enregistré le : dim. 25 oct. 2020 17:19

Re: Return fire

Message par Badger » ven. 27 nov. 2020 18:46

The paragraph you mentioned on p53 also says A unit with an action marker may no longer engage in fire combat but may return fire.

Reading through p47 I think the support is to do with shock combat.

RogerGreenwood
Chef de bataillon
Messages : 384
Enregistré le : ven. 29 nov. 2019 20:55

Re: Return fire

Message par RogerGreenwood » sam. 28 nov. 2020 10:13

Engaging in fire combat would be initiating it. This is definitely not permitted.
Troops with an action marker may only offer morale support to shock combat, never fire support. Sorry I don't have the page reference.

I wonder whether it is the author or the translator who made poor choices with some terms. There really needs to be a distinction between support for shock combat 'additional shooting' and aiding morale tests.

Badger
Soldat
Messages : 6
Enregistré le : dim. 25 oct. 2020 17:19

Re: Return fire

Message par Badger » sam. 28 nov. 2020 15:59

Thanks for flagging it, I think I’ve found it.
P48 Conditions of Support
3rd bullet
For a unit to provide support a unit must not be disordered, and not have an action marker and not be engaged by the enemy in fire or shock combat to provide fire support

fdunadan
Capitaine
Messages : 240
Enregistré le : sam. 5 janv. 2019 10:10

Re: Return fire

Message par fdunadan » dim. 29 nov. 2020 11:25

From the French version, in "common fire modifiers", shooter with action marker: "a unit with action marker cannot engage a fight but can still ripost with a -1 malus. She cannot support fire"

RogerGreenwood
Chef de bataillon
Messages : 384
Enregistré le : ven. 29 nov. 2019 20:55

Re: Return fire

Message par RogerGreenwood » dim. 29 nov. 2020 15:42

Looks like a translator problem then. This is the exact opposite of the English version.

RogerGreenwood
Chef de bataillon
Messages : 384
Enregistré le : ven. 29 nov. 2019 20:55

Re: Return fire

Message par RogerGreenwood » mar. 29 déc. 2020 13:56

The latest from Dan, who has contact with the author, has been informed that this is a mistake in the English rules. The French version is correct. Units with an action marker cannot provide fire support.

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