Return fire

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Badger
Soldat
Messages : 6
Enregistré le : dim. 25 oct. 2020 17:19

Return fire

Message par Badger » mer. 28 oct. 2020 20:09

I'm starting with my first few games and I've a question on the fire process and returning fire:

Scenario
French army units
FFF

AA
Austrians
1. French moves 3 units to 3UD and fires as it has integrated skirmishers. Austrians are out of range and cannot return fire. All 3 French units get action markers
2. Austrians move 2 units forward to 2UD and fire. Who can return fire?

Is it just the units fired on?
Page 53 - Return fire a unit fired on can return fire even if they have an action marker.
However what happens with the 3rd French unit, they arent being fired on can they still provide support fire for the French units Returning Fire?

Adrian Steer
Capitaine
Messages : 206
Enregistré le : ven. 4 sept. 2020 20:17

Re: Return fire

Message par Adrian Steer » mer. 28 oct. 2020 21:12

Looking at page 53 in the rules I don't believe you can fire unless you've been fired upon so no you don't get support on your return fire from the third unit

RogerGreenwood
Chef de bataillon
Messages : 384
Enregistré le : ven. 29 nov. 2019 20:55

Re: Return fire

Message par RogerGreenwood » jeu. 29 oct. 2020 09:39

Correct, of course the French did not have to open fire with all the skirmishers, they could have held fire and closed to give a volley.

Adrian Steer
Capitaine
Messages : 206
Enregistré le : ven. 4 sept. 2020 20:17

Re: Return fire

Message par Adrian Steer » ven. 30 oct. 2020 19:10

Was reading through the rules yesterday and noticed that also on page 53 under firer with action marker it does say " A unit with an action marker can still conduct supporting fire". Not sure what to make of it but on the face of it would seem that the third french unit can contribute to the return fire. Any comments from anyone else?

RogerGreenwood
Chef de bataillon
Messages : 384
Enregistré le : ven. 29 nov. 2019 20:55

Re: Return fire

Message par RogerGreenwood » ven. 30 oct. 2020 20:41

Yes Adrian, you are correct. If I read it correctly, a unit with an action marker cannot give fire support for shock combat. The answer to the original question then, is that the unit can add its fire support.

Badger
Soldat
Messages : 6
Enregistré le : dim. 25 oct. 2020 17:19

Re: Return fire

Message par Badger » lun. 9 nov. 2020 11:11

Hi
Thanks for the feedback and pieces to look at.

I think the reason B2 on p53 cant fire is bacause it wasnt fired on and already has and action marker it can only react.
It cant fire in support due to the fire zone limitation p51

Badger
Soldat
Messages : 6
Enregistré le : dim. 25 oct. 2020 17:19

Re: Return fire

Message par Badger » mar. 24 nov. 2020 18:37

Hi
On page 53 under return fire the diagram it says “B2 has an action marker so it cannot engage in combat if it is not attacked”.

Plus page 50 Timing of shooting
“A unit may initiate fire combat only once per turn. It then receives an action marker. However a unit fired upon can still return fire”

My reading of this means that if you’ve already fired and have a action marker you can’t support however if fired on you can fire back as many times as fired upon.

Otherwise you could have a position where you fire in your activation and then even if not fired upon offer fire support multiple times.

RogerGreenwood
Chef de bataillon
Messages : 384
Enregistré le : ven. 29 nov. 2019 20:55

Re: Return fire

Message par RogerGreenwood » jeu. 26 nov. 2020 11:29

Page 53 is clear. An action marker does not prevent fire support. It is possible to give supporting fire multiple times. It would require adjacent units to be fired upon.

Adrian Steer
Capitaine
Messages : 206
Enregistré le : ven. 4 sept. 2020 20:17

Re: Return fire

Message par Adrian Steer » jeu. 26 nov. 2020 18:48

I think Support fire is only possible if it complies with Firing priorities so looking at the diagram on page 53 may explain why B2 can't fire at A1. A2 can shoot at either B1 or B2 as they are both in front of B1 at the same distance. Because A2 didn't shoot at B2, B2 can't return fire at A1 as its not the priority target and return fire has to be at the principle shooter which in the example is A1. Hope this makes sense!

RogerGreenwood
Chef de bataillon
Messages : 384
Enregistré le : ven. 29 nov. 2019 20:55

Re: Return fire

Message par RogerGreenwood » jeu. 26 nov. 2020 23:45

Yes, I think I understand. I will look at the book tomorrow.

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