The lot of the Russian musketeer….

[RocketSix]

After playing about half a dozen games(including 2 today) I do wonder the relative value between a Russian musketeer (9) and the opposing French Line infantry (12). Given that in a firefight the French will be shooting at a +3 vs a Russian 0. Its unlikely that the French would need to close to allow the Russians to have any benefit from their tenacious characteristic. Also given the poor leadership of the Russians it is likely for them to defend - and that allows the A class French to perform grand sweeping manoeuvres. Not moaning - but more a query to ask if anyone else is finding this ?

[KeefM]

Ah, but one of the many perils of a Russian player !!

Initially I was finding the same as you were; them there Russian infantry ain't much chop vs opposing enemy line infantry. Overall, though, I found the clunky command much worse.

But ...

The joy* of using Russians is that your wall of artillery is intimidating to opposing players (even if not quite as effective as they look). Plus your overall army composition will usually create a number of flanking issues for the smaller armies you face.

So, after a few games now, I'm feeling like I've gotten the hang of using the Russians ... well, ish anyways. My musketeers tend to be rear supports for their guns and leave the "real" fighting to jaeger, artillery, Guard infantry or grenadiers, and creating lots of gaps in the opposing lines with Cossacks and cavalry pinning down the opposing force to watch out for losing objectives and their LoC. Plus, the extra Musketeers mean that you can afford a rear support for fleeing and retreating units.

To me, the overall use of a BE Russian force feels a lot more clunky/clumsy and static than a more agile French force. Hmmm, maybe it just feels more "historic" perhaps than in other rule sets ... it's certainly harder work !


* individual results may vary

[KeefM]

An example of my 200pt Russian lists (FWIW):


Russian 1812

CnC competent 

Reserve units:
1 x Opelchenie (assign to Infantry Division)
1 x 12pdr battery (keep with CnC)

Vanguard Division competent 
2 x Jaeger
1 x Cossack 
1 x Hussar
1 x 6pdr horse battery

Infantry Division poor
3 x Musketeer 

Cavalry Division ordinary 
2 x Dragoon large size
1 x 6pdr horse battery 

Cossack Division poor
2 x Don Cossacks 

[zeitoun]

After playing about half a dozen games(including 2 today) I do wonder the relative value between a Russian musketeer (9) and the opposing French Line infantry (12). Given that in a firefight the French will be shooting at a +3 vs a Russian 0.

Hi , for me it's only +2 (2 for line) for french and 0 for Russian. ( +2 for line -1 for bad shooter and -1 for less skirmish) . But for sure it's difficult to hold the line .

For me 4 musketeer are equal as 3 french line ( better front or more support ) and more cohesion for the army, but i agree, Tenacious skill is not very useful in this case.

Regards.
Olivier M

[RocketSix]

+2 (2 for line) for french

French line +2
SK1 integrated +1

Russian line +2
Poor Shooters -1
Worse SK -1

On average results you are trading 1 loss vs 1 attrition... so after the first volley and the Ruskis take a loss then it gets even worse!

[RocketSix]

An example of my 200pt Russian lists (FWIW):

That is way more cavalry than I would currently field Are these specifically for delaying the french , I can't imagine that A class french are going to be put off by Dragoons in any sort of close combat

[RocketSix]

French line +2
SK1 integrated +1

Interestingly I've just re-read this and had missed the 'only' in the skirmisher fire section. So that does makes it a little better

[KeefM]

How much table-width do the French occupy ? Usually not nearly as much as the Russians.

So, in basketball terms, I'd use what might be called a "full court press" with the cavalry. The likely 2 medium sized units of French cavalry, even if veteran L4, won't be able to prevent the Russians from getting through the French lines somewhere (with either Cossacks or Jaeger or Hussars).

Once the contact line is broken, then you can bring pressure on either the French infantry flanks/rear or by taking objectives or the LoC to their rear. Any units they siphon off for flank or objective protection is less in the contact zone.

Plus, you have 3 artillery batteries able to influence the French approach; probably at least 1 more battery than the French and tougher by virtue of being large. Even if you swap the 2nd horse battery for a 2nd 12pdr battery and trade the Opelchenie in for upgrading to Veteran jaeger, then you can have 2 x 12pdr batteries with canister ranges of 6 UD which will make the French infantry pause before closing (+4 for stationary shooting, and good factors if assaulted while protected by the poor old Musketeers mean the French won't be unscathed).

And, the smaller French army will have other problems posed simply by you extending past their flanks at the same time as facing your superior artillery numbers.

All is not lost by having infantry that aren't up to a straight 1-on-1 shoot-out ...

[zeitoun]

+2 (2 for line) for french

French line +2
SK1 integrated +1

Russian line +2
Poor Shooters -1
Worse SK -1

On average results you are trading 1 loss vs 1 attrition... so after the first volley and the Ruskis take a loss then it gets even worse!

Hello,

i'm sorry, but +1 for skirmish can't be added when you make fire at short range.
It's only used for skirmish fire.
So +2 only.

Olivier M

[RocketSix]

I'd use what might be called a "full court press" with the cavalry

I hear what you are saying ... we haven't played with a lot of cavalry. The high press could avoid a A class reserve division trusting into a vulnerable area. The lack of PIPs for the Poor commanders is painful tho