Charges, moves and passage of lines

[Hazelbark]

For clarity.

Unit A is charging.
Unit B is moving with A as a supporting unit.

Can unit B perform a passage of lines through unlimbered artillery? Normally it could as a move, but not as a charge. So is the supporting unit considered charging for the purposes of being prohibited form a passage of lines?

Unit C is not part of A's group. May a CP be expended to bring unit C up in a normal move to support A in its combat, or must C wait until after the combat is resolved to move. I do realize it could charge the same target and then count, but then it has an attrition marker.

[gibbyj]

I think if/as B is moving as part of a Group then No as one of the bullet points on p37 says "Units or groups moving during a passage of lines may not charge or shoot"

I think you can spend the pip to bring C up to support as long as you declared it as a support when you declared the charge.

cheers
Jim

[Netchaiev]

No more than gibbyj for the first part.

For the later, Hervé has answered this :

Lors des charges, tu peux bouger toutes les unités qui chargent et qui soutiennent une charge.
Donc si tu charge avec les 2 unités du groupe A, tu peux payer 1 PC de plus pour bouger le groupe B pour venir soutenir la charge (même si c'est avec une seule unité de ce groupe).

During charge segment, you can move every unit who charges or supports charge.
You can spend one pip to bring one unit from another group who can charge to support but I believe you must consider this as a charge.
Regular movement takes place after shock resolution

[Hazelbark]

You can spend one pip to bring one unit from another group who can charge to support but I believe you must consider this as a charge.

When you say "must consider a charge" do you mean it gets an action marker? If so, that fits and technically you are saying it is a charge. The question is, does that move actually require an action marker.

[gibbyj]

hcaille wrote: ↑Tue 25 Feb 2020 05:34
"Lors des charges, tu peux bouger toutes les unités qui chargent et qui soutiennent une charge.
Donc si tu charge avec les 2 unités du groupe A, tu peux payer 1 PC de plus pour bouger le groupe B pour venir soutenir la charge (même si c'est avec une seule unité de ce groupe)."

Which I have translating as
"When charging, you can move all units that charge and support a charge.
So if you charge with the 2 units from group A, you can pay 1 additional CP to move group B to come and support the charge (even if it is with only one unit from this group)."
So I can't see anything in that that says this is a charge so imo if it is just a move to support then no action marker.

cheers
Jim

[Netchaiev]

When i read "action marker" p29, I understand that charging units receive such marker if directly involved in shock or in shooting support but not in moral support.

But I still believe that the movement of another unit in support of a main charge should be considered as a charge too with the restrictions of the charge movement listed p42 (infantry vs cav, skirmishers, units which already have an action marker...).

P42 again : One unit can be attacked by one unit only and the accompanying units charge in support.
So, every movement bringing support to an attack should be considered as a charge.

And in the sequence of play, charges and shocks take place before regular movement

[gibbyj]

I originally thought so to but according to Herve, only the units that actually contact get the Action marker.As per the below.
cheers
Jim


Re: Supporting unit that pursues
Post by hcaille » Mon 3 Jun 2019 14:48

When you charge or counter charge, only the unit that effectively contact the ennemy and do the melee have an action marker.
Supporting unit do not.

This is the same for pursuit : supporting unit don't have an action marker.

[Netchaiev]

Moral support, even after charge, don't get action market, as I said in the first sentence. Wording of the rules is quite clear.

But I think you can bring one unit by spending one pip during charge movement in a position where it cannot act as moral support (another friendly unit already there for example) but can count as shooting support to shock.

And units in shooting support get action marker.

BTW, it won't occur very often.

[RogerGreenwood]

I have not read any author's comments. However I can find no rules contradictions.
Groups can charge - page 42
Each unit can only be contacted by one charger, hence not all the units need to make contact. This is my assumption but seems clear.
Shock is resolved before other moves - page 57.
There is no passage of lines in a charge.
In conclusion, unit B can only move to support as part of a charging group. This is a charge move, or it would have to be part of 'other moves' and happen later. So no, it cannot interpenetrate and move with the chargers.
Any other moves come after charges. Any supporting units must therefore already be in place or be part of a charge move.

[Hazelbark]

It is now my understand that a move to support, can be done during the charge. It does not get an action marker as you outline. It can not perform a passage of lines as you outline.

But because it is taking up a support position it can be moved during the charge moves.